The Psilocybin Podcast: Body Dysmorphia and Psilocybin

Andrew the Mind Body coordinator of Eleusinia retreat shares his personal story of navigating the challenges of body dysmorphia. He details how psilocybin and meditation helped him find joy, and purpose in being in his body again. Today he spends his time helping others to do the same. Listen here or on Apple Podcasts.

Tawnya: You have made it to The Psilocybin Podcast with tales from Eleusinia unique science-based psilocybin and retreat based out of Mexico. That not only focuses on brain health and wellbeing, but actually specializes in pain management. I am your host, Tawnya, the medical director come along and join us as we break down the latest in psychedelic research news and the inner workings of this amazing experience.

Andrew. Thank you so much for being such an important part of the team of Eleusina Can you tell us a little bit about what your role is in Eleusinia now?

Andrew: Thank you. I’m super excited to sit down with you and to be able to share these stories and talk today. At Eleusinia, I am the Mind-Body Coordinator.

My primary role is to share mind-body exercises to help people navigate the psychedelic experience and really the life experience and the experience of being human, primarily breathwork and meditation. We weave these into the experience at the retreat so that everyone who comes to us gets to experience getting to know themselves deeper and get to use these tools, as we said, to navigate the experience while working with psychedelics, but knowing that many of our guests come to us, not just for a one-and-done psychedelic experience, but rather to continue working with this, being able to take that home with them as well. So that’s a big part of what I do.

About how we help people navigate the psychedelic experience and a life experience, we work with psychedelics for pain management and personal transformation as well. I think that covers a whole lot of ground. People with any type of what feels like mental suffering, emotional suffering, physical pain.

And so for me, having met Jessica and knowing that she came from a background that was filled with pain and that this project was born from that, creating this thing that none of us could have done ourselves as individual members of this team, and feeling included in that. And I feel like I saw something in myself through meeting her. And while her condition was very much that of physical pain, it made me realize that pain is, is pain.

Pain is suffering and we all have that. And it touched my heart in the parts of me that were suffering, being able to live a life that’s more free and pain-free, with less suffering and be able to get to know ourselves when we’re not trapped by that suffering so much.

And so for me, that that was so beautiful to come into and that’s what I continue to hope to share. As we continue to grow the project at Eleusinia is how can we just touch more lives and how can we use these tools? And I think about the tools that I bring to the team. With breath, work meditation to get to know ourselves, but also to be able to relieve suffering.

Tawnya: I really love that you took it there because we have together cultivated a team that all come from a background of pain. So it’s really relatable. Every one of our team members has moved through challenges and difficulties, obviously how most humans have in their life. But each of us have this different perspective of how we’ve transformed our suffering.

As you spoke the day in and day out . Just to make this relatable, having some sort of chronic physical pain, it makes every day so challenging to live through having some sort of emotional pain depression, anxiety, anything like that makes life each day so hard from the moment you open your eyes in the morning to the moment you close your eyes.

I know that Jessica was able to see that. She had no answers. And so when she was able to design this retreat, it was just such a beautiful thing to also cultivate team members that came from that background. Would you mind taking us back and tell us a little bit about how you move through your own life to try to find a better quality of life and a more meaningful life?

How did that start for you?

Andrew: I think for me, a lot of my suffering was rooted in identity and was rooted in who I am, in my relationship with myself. So for me, a lot of that was around my sexuality and a lot of it was around my body dysmorphia. It was around just feeling super disconnected and discontent with my body and with myself.

Yeah, that of course. for me, my story of my waking up everyday was waking up and looking at myself in the mirror and just feeling disgusted sometimes, or sometimes waking up and looking myself in the mirror and just not wanting to go outside, looking like me, not wanting to be myself, not wanting to go downstairs and my family home and, and have to be who I was, because that was difficult.

Some people start their morning routine and, maybe some people freshen up or put on makeup. And, and for me it was actually just feeling I had to put on a smile that wasn’t even mine, just to move through the world, just to be able to go downstairs, just to be able to walk out the door to just put on a face when really, I just felt so crushingly disconnected from feeling safe as a queer person.

Growing up in a household where that was not accepted, where it was not okay to express certain aspects of myself and where very quickly, I learned there was punishment, not only at my house, but at school and in my environment, there was punishment and there was suffering to be had just for showing up.

I think that’s for many people, the human experience, something we experienced going through the world, if we just show up and, and we’re not readily accepted. And I think that is a huge source of suffering for many of us as well. So when it came to my body dysmorphia and my body issues, I was actually born with a condition called pectus excavatum, which I don’t know if you’re familiar with this or whoever’s listening is familiar, but essentially if you think about our sternum, our breastbone, quote unquote, normal breastbone, or start on just go straight down from your collar bones down and then opens up and your ribs, my sternum actually curves inward. So this is the pectus excavatum this inward hole and. For me, it was crushing to go to the beach as a young person and feel like I couldn’t take off my shirt. Even with my family, it was always like, no, put on a shirt because somebody is going to look at your funny.

And so of course, as a young person, you start to absorb that oh, there’s something wrong with me. There’s inherently because I was born this way, something wrong with me. Not only am I queer. Not only do I have like, what does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to be straight? You know, that wasn’t a thing.

What does it mean to have relationships? What does it mean to be in love? My way of loving was apparently not right. And then on top of that to be in a body, that was actually not something that it was okay to even show. Started making me feel like I had to go deeper and deeper and deeper into the closet, not just as a queer person, but just within my own existence of just being me being in this body was something that was too much.

It was very difficult. And it took me a long time. Talking about my path, that’s something that eventually drew me to yoga because for the first time I actually was able to feel my body, for something where my body in my mind’s eye had given me so suffering, and was the source of the problem..

It wasn’t society. It was my body. It was me. I was the issue. So I become so disconnected from the person I saw in the mirror. And beyond that, the person that I woke up as every day, the person that I was, the body that I was inhabiting. So when I started practicing yoga and meditation and practicing things like body scans, I was able to feel my body for the first time.

It felt like, and when I could actually feel my body. Then I started realizing and recognizing, it just is what it is. It is what it is. This is how I feel. This is me. This is my body. This is who I am. And through yoga, being able to actually make my body feel good, being able to cultivate pleasure and being able to cultivate something, even just in a simple stretch or, and feeling my strength or, or feeling that, oh, I can, I can practice that pose now that I couldn’t do before felt, wow, my body is this really interesting vessel.

It’s not precisely what I’ve been told it was. It’s, it’s a little bit more, there’s something more interesting going on here. And that helped me start to cultivate my self-respect and my self esteem. And then meeting Jessica and once again, looping back to that.

Her story of moving through pain, that’s what touched me, was, wow. I have also suffered and talking about Eleusinia her dream and her vision.

We came to the conclusion we want the same thing, so let’s bring all of our tools to the table, what you, have what I have now what all of us on the team have, and let’s make something freaking beautiful. Let’s make something so special because as, as a person who grew up with body dysmorphia and who grew up queer I never felt like I was enough, I never felt like what I brought to the table. What I brought to existence, I brought to humanity was enough.

There was something wrong with me. That was my, my narrative. So to actually now be in a place where it feels like, no, I am meant to be here. I am meant to show up just how I am. I meant to share the tools. We all are because our project wouldn’t be the same if it didn’t have all of us, if you weren’t here, we wouldn’t have this beautiful spark of integration and personality.

And we wouldn’t have what you bring and that’s the truth for all of us. We all bring something so unique. So individually unique and, and yeah, it’s, it’s just, it’s been a huge transformation. Even for me, just within the past few months, working with this project and feeling the hope grow within me that this is continuing forward and how much can come from it.

Just seeing how much has already come from it has been so huge for my own personal transformation.

Tawnya: How do the tools that you’ve learned and taught, and also the use of psychedelics, how did that work and take your knowledge base of yoga to the next level for you personally, and that personal transformation of being able to embody you as a beautiful whole perfect being?

Andrew: For me, I think with psychedelics and particularly working with mushrooms. I think two major shifts happened. The more I started working with mushrooms for my own personal growth and my own personal transformation, and my mental and emotional health, is when was I started feeling my body in a totally different way because when I sit with mushrooms, I feel my body so alive.

I’m so aware of my body and it’s, a heightened awareness that, even as a yoga teacher and even as somebody who practices embodiment, who teaches embodiment, it was a total next level a total up-level of just feeling my toes and my hair and feeling my body and then being able to get to that space where you’re in that bliss state that psychedelics can give you to actually feel like my body is capable, not just of being here, not just showing up, with my suffering, with whatever.

No, this vessel is capable of experiencing bliss, a psychedelic bliss state. That was huge for me to go from somebody who felt disconnected from the body and just like a ghost moving around the world in many ways to then feeling just so in my body and so alive in my body, was so beautiful.

That, that I have to say is one of the main things. That there was hugely transformational.

Tawnya: When you, said that you looked in the mirror when you’re in the midst of your body dysmorphia and suffering and you had to put on somebody else’s smile. Can you tell me what it feels like today to look in the mirror when you get ready in the morning?

Andrew: Oh my God. What a good question. I think the other thing. Is the sense of love that for me, psychedelics have allowed me to experience. Have allowed me to embody, have allowed me to feel, just to feel love and feel deep connection for other humans, feel deep connection for my family, even amidst right, having absorbed pain, what it feels like from them.

Now, now it’s so much easier to see, intergenerational trauma that I wasn’t going through that alone. Of course my family went through things like that. So how are they going to pass something else on? So being able to feel love and connected to the people who came before me and the people that are around me and to feel like I’m one of those people and, and just the sense of love for nature, beauty out, outside.

And then seeing I’m part of that, I’m part of this whole big, beautiful ecosystem this social ecosystem. So now when I look in the mirror, it’s like, wow, you’re, you’re doing it. You’re beautiful. And I could have never, ever, ever, ever, ever as a young person have expected that ever to actually be able to be in that place where I can look at myself and feel bright and feel joyous in looking at myself in the mirror and seeing my own eyes and seeing the tenderness there and seeing the love that lives here and that I know I can share with others and connect with.

Tawnya: Yeah, it is my unique ability or opportunity to get to hear from all our guests about how much you and what you teach means to them.

We have queer guests that have moved through challenges and living the way they are in society. We have guests that suffer with body dysmorphia. What does it feel like for you to see these guests and watch how the education that we provide and the experiences that we provide really help them take their lives to a level of a better quality of life.

Andrew: I’m going to share a story, a story, and without naming names, we recently actually had one guest. Who just in my heart, just ripped open. Goodbyes are always hard, and especially after having these beautiful experiences where you connect on such a deep level, such a personal level, and you see personal transformation happening, and I get to feel all of us on the team are part of that.

And everyone going through the experience has moved through something so huge and so interesting along their life path. But I had one guest come up to me, in our goodbyes and actually share with me how touched he was and how important it was for him that I was not just the yoga guy.

It was not just the yoga guy on the retreat, but actually that I was in his eyes, this strong queer leader amongst the team. And for me, just thinking back to a younger me, I melted in that moment and it still makes me emotional to think about that, to, to know that I have moved. In this life journey from being someone who was afraid of being queer and of what that meant to actually now being recognized by others as somebody who, who touches their lives, just because I am proud in that.

And I think a lot of people come to us sometimes thinking that there’s this, their suffering is only theirs, that they’re the only one going through it. And as well to actually have another queer person show up and see that their suffering was not only theirs that I’ve been through that too, that I was here too, painting this beautiful picture of, of what could be, for me is, is absolutely life changing.

Tawnya: And I’ve also heard guests that have struggled with body dysmorphia, say that for the first time there they feel okay in their body. And it’s just a huge thing. And I really love this discussion about how humans suffer with pain and it looks different in a lot of different ways.

It’s amazing. The perspective that we each bring. And we have a lot of magic and a lot of tools that are specialized around neurological pain and chronic pain and disorders that are surrounded by inflammation. But sometimes these people need to come with a spouse that has depression, or, we just have such an array and it’s just so beautiful that we can cover all of those aspects.

Is there anything you’d like to share? Can we get into some of the tools that you teach through a psychedelic experience that we’re really this blessing gift from Jessica? Because she going back a little bit, for those of you don’t know, Jessica’s story is that she had to move through her own healing because there really was no other option.

No one else had any answers for her hemicrania continua, so she had to develop and go to psilocybin to interrupt these pain cycles. And in the beginning with her work with psilocybin it was just a break from pain for the time of the journey, but as she continued to move forward, she got more and more breaks from, from the pain.

And she developed some of these things intuitively and she realized that no one should have to go through what, what she did. So she cultivated some practices so that she could live with the practice of using psilocybin on a regular basis to make sure she could live her life in a whole and meaningful way.

So what has it been like for you to teach that and how do you think that translates over to the guests with pain and all sorts of arenas?

Andrew: I think it’s been fascinating to learn from Jessica. I mean, her as a person who sits psychedelics so often has such a deep and personal understanding and relationship with what goes on in her body.

Really embodying the experience and how to navigate it is something that, thinking about experts out there, I mean, she has a whole lot of experience. And so for me, as a breathwork facilitator and as a meditation teacher, something that she showed me and taught me and that we also share at our retreat is that meditation and psychedelic experiences, they’re not these two separate things that happen.

You don’t just go meditate just because, and you don’t just do psychedelics just because, but actually both of these are aiming at the same thing. And as well with the breath work. So when it comes to meditation, a big thing that she taught me is that our brains end up looking very similar when you’re in a psychedelic state and when you’re meditating.

So what we like to share at the retreat is actually how to get back into your meditation, how to get back into the space, where you can feel like you actually reactivate some of those psychedelic effects. So earlier I was talking about feeling bliss in my body, well, what about being able to reactivate to that?

The day after, when you’re not even on the influence of mushrooms anymore, or two days after being able to not only get in that space very quickly using your breath, but then able to just sit with that for a while and let that be the start of your day or let that be a significant part of your day, no matter what else you go through to be able to have a time cut out where you have felt that.

Where you have felt bliss, whatever you’re going through, whatever you’re moving through. I think that that’s beautiful. And so one thing that she actually taught me was what we call the activating breath. And in some ways it can feel a bliss breath. It feels blissful at sometimes to actually get back into that space where, as she calls it of keeping the door a little open.

And, and that’s how we like to teach it of, of being able to have your psychedelic experience experienced these changes in your neurological pathways in your brain. Be able to open up to neuroplasticity. And then to keep the door a little bit open, how fascinating, what an interesting thing that, even as a yoga teacher, nobody had ever taught me that, so to be with somebody so experienced and, and careful in the way that she cares for people so deeply, and she cares for people’s experiences so deeply, and for people to be able to feel empowered in that experience.

For me, then that translates to being able to teach working with this breath, not only to reactivate, but also teaching breath work in order to navigate your experience, even when it gets tough. Whether that’s your psychedelic experience, whether that’s your human experience. So not only having a reactivating breath, but also having calming breath work to actually be able to calm down your nervous system to self-sooth.

So even when things do get tough, perhaps in a psychedelic experience for me, sometimes I experienced nausea. And Jessica pulled me over at one time when she was guiding us an experience for me and I was experiencing nausea and she said, Hey, sit and breathe with me. And she set up this app and guided me through breathing and, and how beautiful to have somebody who cares so deeply for your experience to know that you don’t just have to suffer through it.

And that actually, it can be beautiful. I think for her as somebody who, who went from so much suffering just in her lived experience, to what I think now is something beautiful. being able to share this project that I know she cares so deeply about. And she once told me, it was her labor of love.

And I know it is for all of us to translate that into a life experience for somebody to know, I don’t actually need to suffer. And in the psychedelic experience, I don’t need to sit here and suffer through this. Just because this is going to have some eventual benefit for me. How can I actually use my breath right now?

Right now to make a change and to feel a little better. And for me, even in that experience, just from breathing for maybe two minutes, my nausea went down. I felt so much better. felt so much better. She was able to help me. Self-soothe even as somebody who, before that, prior to working with Eleusinia was teaching people breath work, was teaching people yoga and how to work with your nervous system.

But she taught me that bring those tools in those are not a separate thing. Meditation, breath work, these are not separate from your psychedelic experience or your life experience. These are key tools to be able to use. I must say I am so grateful to her and I’m so grateful to all of our team and all of the people who come to our retreat because, for me looking back, like I said, I never would have expected any of this..

I couldn’t have asked for anything better. I could not have asked to feel better in my skin. I could not have asked to feel better in my relationship with myself and with the people I love. I can not ask for a more meaningful and purposeful life than I’m living right now. I could not have dreamed of it.

And so really it’s, it’s opening so many doors still. I can’t wait to see how things keep evolving. I do have a huge feeling. we started this project at the end of last year in 2021. And we’ve held retreats all throughout the beginning of this year, 2022. We already have dates planned all throughout the rest of the year.

And I’m so excited to feel like this is just the beginning. And I don’t know how you feel Tawnya, about where we’re at with the project. But for me, it totally feels like that. this is just the beginning.

Thank you, Andrew. I feel the same, like this is part of a really incredible movement, but I’d like to say something going back to meditation.

A lot of times, people who are suffering with body dysmorphia, depression, anxiety, chronic pain, their doctors, their primary care providers, or their psychiatrists will say, why don’t you try meditation. Try meditation that will help you. And for those people, the reality is that is the most unattainable thing.

Their suffering is so much, no matter where it’s coming from in what aspect, it’s, it’s like an impossible ask. And so these people feel 100% defeated. What happens with psychedelics is that it is a rocket ship to get you to an ease in your meditation. So those two things combined is such an incredible ball of magnificent.

Amplification to get them to a place to where they really can move into a quality of life that is of their own design, of less physical pain, of being more comfortable in your body of finally having the relief and letting go of the heaviness, shedding the heaviness of what it’s like to open your eyes every morning with an incredible, incredible ache of depression or fear.

Hmm. I mean, that’s beautiful and something I want to set out there right now, set the line and set, set the tone is, is as well. even, even folks who come to us. Talking about, people who, because of their struggles have probably been recommended to try meditation. And a lot of people who have come to us have tried meditation using either an app or YouTube, or even being with a teacher.

But at no point have most teachers or apps said, Hey, guess what? You’re actually going to be thinking. I think there’s this huge misconception about meditation, of like my mind needs to be still, my mind needs to be quiet. And even during, during the psychedelic experience, some people as we liken meditation to a psychedelic experience, think like, oh geez, I did it wrong because during my psychedelic experience, I was thinking, I was thinking and I was going over things in my head when I was sitting and trying to meditate.

I was thinking and going over things in my head and it’s like, no, no, that’s okay. That happens. This is part of it. It’s not about having a still mind or a quiet mind because as well, when you’re in pain or when you’re, you’re anxious, I dealt with a lot of anxiety when I started meditating.

There was no stillness. There was no quiet. even me with just my regular aches and pains, not even imagining what somebody who’s going through a huge pain condition is dealing with just sitting in your body. It’s difficult. Of course your nervous system is sending you a lots of signals.

Of course your nervous system is going to be on. Of course your brain is going to be jittery and trying to tell a story and talking so as well, I don’t want people to feel discouraged. who out there who have maybe if you’ve tried meditation, To think, oh, I’m not good at it. don’t use that as an excuse to continue the same narrative.

for me, my narrative was, I’m not good enough. So when meditation didn’t work for me, I’m still not good enough. And I don’t want anybody else to feel that way, meditation. Some people liken it to this magic pill, it’s going to help reduce your stress levels, reduce your cortisol.

It’s going to have these huge, massive benefits and really compounding the more you work with it. And it’s like a pill, but it takes about 15 to 20 minutes to work.

So that’s the challenging thing, I’ve actually just being in a meditative state, just taking out a little bit of our normal stimulus we’re very overstimulated for the most part and to actually start to listen to ourselves and listen to whatever, whatever messaging is going through our body, through our nervous system, just sitting with it for about 15 to 20 minutes can definitely be hard at first. There’s no right way to do.

Just trying it, just setting a timer and just BEING for 15 to 20 minutes for some people can feel super difficult, but I guarantee you, if you practice it more often just sitting and being for those 15 to 20 minutes, will get easier.

Tawnya: And with psychedelics, the meditation becomes so much easier.

Andrew: Not only easier, more interesting for goodness sake. Once you’ve experienced these bliss states or you’ve been able to experience the beauty and sometimes even the hyper-focus on sound or on color, all of these things, or even just what you’re feeling in your body. Any of those can become your object of attention in meditation.

And all of a sudden it’s so much more interesting, for a lot of people, even me, when I started out, I was like, geez, this is boring. what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to do something? Is there anything that’s going to make this more interesting. And, at some point going to start having some much more interesting thought process than just my normal day to day, but actually because talking about neuroplasticity and what psychedelics open up and make possible for our brains. What change becomes possible in our brains? Ooh. Things start to get a lot more interesting.

Tawnya: I’d like to know, looking back to that, Andrew that looked in the mirror and had to plaster on somebody else’s smile that was living life every minute of the day and suffering and being in your own body.

If you had then what you now teach to others? Well, how would it have looked different?

Andrew: I think if little Andrew, a younger me had access to these tools and beyond the tools, if I had access, just to knowing that there was a path for- if I knew that there was somebody like me out there who had been through similar or the same things.

And if I knew that actually that person had not only moved through it, but they had come to a space where life actually felt and looked beautiful and they, they themselves felt themselves alive and beautiful, that in and of itself would have been radical so for me, looking not only yoga, not only meditation as I shared, but actually then now taking that next step and working with psychedelics and these tools has utterly changed my life.

So knowing that there is a path forward, knowing that there is a path ahead, I think would have inspired me to feel like there is so much more hope. There is so much more possibility. There’s is something super worth living way ahead of me, beyond the “it gets better”. It really does.

It can get better. It does take a little effort. It does take some interesting experiences. It does take what feels like, I think for some people like going out on the limb, but if you’re willing to take that step and take that chance, I think of Jessica, she never, ever would have thought that psychedelics would have helped her.

She thought this was some crazy hippie stuff. But when it became a part of her solution, how life changing is that? To know that you actually don’t have to go through this chronic situation of suffering. For me, I did not, a younger me knowing that I would not have to chronically either suffer and feel anxious or dissociate and just go numb to know that actually there was something beyond that that was alive and that was in feeling, and that was potential to feel connected.

Wow. A beautiful pathway could lie ahead of me, and I can’t say how it would have changed my life. I can’t really say that. I think everything worked out as it needed to for me. And I think, I just feel grateful that these tools and this knowledge is being more scientifically studied.

There is more acceptance. There is more understanding of it because I think even for me that made it more accessible, how would it have ever made it into my life? If more people weren’t trusting it and working with it. So I just hope that more people can, can feel that trust and can look into the science behind it.

Can understand beyond the science as well. Even anecdotal lived experiences of how transformational this work is to know that it’s possible to feel something that really, I can say all of this now, but the younger me didn’t know what that felt like. I had never felt it, but just to know that there is something else, there is a potential to feel something totally much more empowered, much more centered, much more joyful, much more in love with life, even when that’s hard.

Sometimes even for me still that’s an advanced practice, but, but it is part of my practice.

Tawnya: Can you feel now looking back that the suffering that you endured was a gift so that you could relate to those that come to the retreat now in a deeper, more meaningful way?

Andrew: I think more than the suffering, I think it’s helped me see that life itself is a gift. I don’t want to say that suffering is this great thing. And I think for a lot of us suffering can be this heavy weight that we feel. pain can be a heavyweight that we feel depression, anxiety, mental health, crumbling relationships, replicating trauma and traumatic patterns, from our family of origin and, and all of that can just feel like this heavy weight.

And I think for many of us, that weight can get the other end of the catapult to somewhere totally different. But I think beyond just feeling like that, it’s the gift. Actually now having that, having catapulted me to where I am today and to be flying, I feel like I am today and feeling like I can take others along with me.

And that we, as this team, we aim to not leave anyone behind, we consider this a movement. We consider this a shift, to feel THAT that’s beautiful. Life itself feels like the gift to be able to feel now what I’m sharing now, what I’m doing. And helping others make it through that transition through this work, through working with psychedelics, through being able to change your mind through being able to change how you relate to yourself through being able to change, the inflammatory patterns in your body, whatever it is, life itself is a gift, and that to me is- if anything, I feel that I want to be my message today.

Life is a gift and things can get so much better than we could even have imagined because if our nervous system has never experienced it, you have to, for the first time, at some point, so if we can actually relieve the suffering, if we can see that the suffering itself was not the gift, but that we’re able to live on the other side of it, I will have lived a very purposeful and meaningful.

Tawnya: Andrew. Thank you so much for sharing that. I want you to know that I see your practice day in and day out, and whenever you’re experiencing anything, you’ll voice it out loud, and I appreciate you so much.

Andrew: Thank you for saying that. And I feel humbled and flattered to hear that. And, as I said, having learned from Jessica and worked with Jessica to now add psychedelics into my practice just for my own wellness has made things so much more interesting than they ever were before.

And I believe in Eleusinia, I believe in what we’re doing, I believe in who we’re taking along with us and this movement and, and it is an honor just to show up with what I have and to bring my own part to the table, to bring my little speck of life and my own experiences, my own transition from the pain and suffering that I went through to being who I am today. Taking all of that with me and just sharing what I can and meeting people where they’re at, who come to us and were with us.

Yeah, it’s, it’s a beautiful thing. So I want to thank, all of us here at the team and think everyone who’s willing to take that step for themselves. Cause I know it can feel scary. I know it could be out on the limb, but there is, there is something so beautiful waiting and I just feel very special to be able to justbe part of helping others experience that.

And sometimes for the first time.

Tawnya: Thank you so much, Andrew.

Andrew: Thank you, Tawnya.

Tawnya: Thank you so much for listening. Every guest that comes to Eleusinia Retreat receives a very special guide book. It goes over techniques to make your psychedelic experience comfortable and manageable. This guide book is now available for free. Just go to and download this 16 page guidebook. It’s something you’re really going to want to have.

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