Psilocybin and PTSD

This is a very special episode where guests of Eleusinia share about Policing, and their experience with psilocybin for PTSD. Jason and Linda are a Canadian couple who navigated the complex roads of PTSD and the communication, love, and support required to see their own healing through. Listen here or on Apple Podcasts.

Tawnya: You have made it to the psilocybin podcast with Tales from Eleusinia, a unique science-based psilocybin retreat based out of Mexico. That not only focuses on brain health and wellbeing, but actually specializes in pain management. I am your host, Tawnya, the medical director. Come along and join us as we break down the latest in psychedelic research news and the inner workings of this amazing experience.

I am so excited to share with you this next episode. Jason and Linda talk about their careers in policing and PTSD, how they’ve managed it, what they’ve discovered about themselves and their lives, and how their experience was at Eleusinia. You’ll love this. Enjoy.

Jason and Linda, I’m so grateful to see your beautiful faces again. It’s such an honor to have you on the show. I know it’s been a couple months since you’ve been to the retreat. Can you tell the audience a little bit about who you are and what you’re up to now?

Linda: Yeah. Thank you so much for having us, Tawnya. I’ve got to say that the retreat was such a wonderful and transformative experience for myself.

A little background. We’re from Canada. I have a background in social science, public policy and social work. And for the past several years I have worked for a policing organization in a civilian capacity. What I didn’t realize was that working in a policing organization is so filled with trauma, danger, and just really harsh life experiences, not personally for myself, but just watching and experiencing and understanding what other people go through on a day to day basis it’s very heavy. And I didn’t realize that until a few years in, when I started to feel really challenged with where I was in life, what I wanted to accomplish and who I wanted to be.

It almost felt as though the years and years of working in police work shifted my worldview into something that was much more negative than I had ever anticipated. Through trauma and through being diagnosed with PTSD, I did a lot of research and I was looking for healing in alternative ways. And that is how myself and my husband found Eleusinia.

The experience was absolutely amazing, transformational, life altering. Where I am today, a few months out, is that I’m exploring various ways of healing myself, trying to be as mindful and present in the moment as possible. I’ve actually started a really fairly in-depth meditation journey that I’m actually coupling with psilocybin, and I’m just very excited and very grateful to see where that will lead me.

Tawnya: Oh, that is so amazing. Thank you so much for sharing part of your journey.

Jason, would you like to tell us a little bit about who you are and what you’re up to now?

Jason: Yes. Also from Canada. I’m a police officer. I have been for over 10 years and developed PTSD probably about four or five years ago. But not diagnosed until just about two years ago. And around the time that it was diagnosed I had to go off work because it just gotten to the point where I wasn’t able to function at work anymore. Just putting on my uniform was exhausting to me. I just wouldn’t be able to bring myself to really go out there and do my job. I wasn’t able to handle anything. My emotions were all over the place.

I was really good at putting my emotions away my entire life. But policing brought a new challenge and I never really realized it, but it’s almost as if every week of work is almost a lifetime worth of other people’s traumas and “worst day of your life,” and I didn’t know how to process any of that. And eventually that box that I was shoving all those emotions into just exploded all over my life and everything that upset me in the slightest way would just be unbearable. And I just wasn’t able to function. You can imagine how difficult that would be going to work, even just showing up for someone who’s upset with their neighbor.

I wasn’t able to stand there and listen and to be compassionate or to solve problems. I wasn’t able to handle that. I wasn’t able to handle the emotions that I was feeling. And I ended up going off of work and spent a long time in programs with therapists, working on the tools that I needed.

But it wasn’t coming to together. I learned what the tools were. I knew how to use them. But when it came down to the situations, I was never able to do much about it. PTSD symptoms would just get the better of me. And it was almost like the Hulk was coming out. It felt like I just had no control and I was a passenger watching my emotions manifest into actions, a lot of it was anger.

And my wife remembered a couple years ago, I had gotten interested in researching psychedelics for mental health. I think I was researching it as I was getting PTSD and realizing something was wrong. And she reminded me about that, and let me know she had been doing a bunch of research and that’s how we came across Eleusinia.

Tawnya: Amazing. I know that you didn’t have a diagnosis for some time and you’re probably going about your life and your career and you couldn’t figure out what was wrong. You didn’t have a name for it. All you knew was that nothing was right. If you don’t mind telling me a little bit about what that time was like and when you accepted the diagnosis, and was it a relief?

Because I feel that PTSD exists on a spectrum. And it’s kind of nice to hear about what those symptoms feel like as you’re like getting in your car, going to your job, as you said, putting on your uniform. That was really, really interesting.

Jason: Yeah. A typical day for me, I would get up early to go into work and work out and I’d be excited about that. But when the workout ended, that’s when the excitement ended. There was just this dread. I found it difficult to bring myself to my locker, walk to it, actually put on my uniform. Everything was slow, there was no motivation there. But I managed to do that and, start off the day with parade. And that was pretty much it. I was pretty exhausted. I would just go sit in my car. We’re supposed to get our cars ready at the beginning of a shift. And I would sit there just staring at a brick wall, emotionally drained, not able to bring myself to do anything.

And I’d sit there probably for, anywhere from five to 30 minutes every day until the anxiety of somebody catching me staring at the wall built up strong enough that I could overcome it and just, get ready and then just drive somewhere and do the same thing in a parking lot somewhere and just stare off.

Tawnya: So what were your clues that it might be PTSD?

Jason: I had none. I just knew something was really wrong and I needed a little time off. I actually went into work to talk to my supervisor and let him know that something was wrong and I need to go see the doctor take a week or two off. Just kind of figure out what was going on. And when I explained to him what I was going through, he actually called me back the same day when I was at home and told me that he was going to start the process of putting this in as a workplace injury.

Because to him, it sounded like there might be some trauma or maybe PTSD or something going on. And that was the first moment where it ever occurred to me. And it was a powerful moment because in my years in policing, nobody had been really positive speaking about mental health challenges that officers would have, everything was just suck it up. And this was the first person to ever have a different reaction with me. And it felt really good. I felt like I had done everything right. Like I had gone in and opened up and things were moving in the right direction.

I didn’t really know about the PTSD. It seemed impossible because I didn’t feel like I had that Hollywood moment that you hear about for PTSD, where someone has this terrible one event and the next day they have PTSD. For me, it’s something that built up over time. It was all the things that had happened over many, many years. I didn’t have a big moment.

Tawnya: Yeah. I was going to ask you that. And I appreciate that because I there’s a lot of myth busting that needs to occur, because people just don’t know what it really is or what it’s really like. And so then if I remember correctly, you started to meet with others and then that’s when it really opened up to you, the dawning of that, this is totally it.

Jason: Yeah. I started to go to a community group for first responders with PTSD. And every week, we talk about our challenges and I realized that we were all experiencing the same symptoms. We all got there from a different way, and we actually don’t talk about the specific ways. We would just speak about how we were affected, the challenges we were having from day to day.

There was just so much power in seeing that every week, everything that I had difficulties with other people were having the same challenges, other people who have have PTSD for varying reasons. And in varying jobs too, not just police officers, but paramedics and firefighters and military members and border patrol agents and prison guards. Everybody was at home when they left the job. PTSD was affecting them, and all of us in very similar ways, regardless of how it happened.

Tawnya: Wow.

Jason: That’s what really helped me accept that this is PTSD, and then to really start focusing on that and to learn how to cope with PTSD. Just accepting that that’s what it was and those thoughts that I was having were a result of the PTSD. Being a police officer and having people lean on me all the time for answers, I had this idea that I always came up with the best answers. And I gave it too much weight because when you’re suffering from PTSD, you’re not looking at things from a logical perspective. Your perception becomes clouded, everything that you see, everything that happens. Everything happens for a negative reason. There’s no solution to it. It’s a hopeless place.

Tawnya: Wow. Why did you guys decide to pursue the psychedelics? And why did you pursue Eleusinia specifically?

Linda: I’ve been doing a lot of research on psychedelic assisted therapy. The MAPS program, there were a few trials going on locally. And I had signed us up for those trials for both psilocybin and ketamine. Unfortunately, the wait list was just so long and there is no legal way of trying psilocybin assisted therapy in Canada at the moment, unless it’s through a funded trial. But I do know that there is a lot of research going on and I’ve been trying to keep up to date with that research as much as possible. And it’s just kind of really peaked my interest.

For myself personally, I had a fear of psychedelics, especially something to pursue on my own. I definitely wanted to be surrounded by knowledgeable, caring and kind people.

And that’s when I came across Eleusinia and I listened to a few of your podcasts, Tawnya. And also, I looked through the articles that Jessica had posted on pain management and the different uses of psilocybin. And it just felt like it came from such a kind and compassionate, but also an evidence-based body of knowledge that Jessica had.

So that’s what really drew me to Eleusinia and I think I turned to Jason one day and I was just like, “I’m going to go. It doesn’t matter if you want to or not, but I would like to, and this is something that I really needed to do for myself.”

Tawnya: Were you afraid, Jason? Did it take some time for you to come to terms with whether you wanted to come or not?

Jason: Yeah, I was skeptical. I was skeptical on whether or not it was going to help and I had a fear that it was going to make things worse. Growing up in this area, it was this DARE program to stop kids from using drugs and the way they were presented to me at such a young age created this fear that never really went away. And then even in policing, police only show up when things go wrong. So I had had some experiences dealing with the public and things that had gone wrong when people are using psychedelics, usually in a partying sense.

So I didn’t have a lot of positive experiences to lean on. But I also heard people’s subjective experiences and I related to something with it. And that’s what originally had gotten my attention. Many years ago, maybe around 2018, I had heard some subjective experiences of psychedelics actually on the, the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast.

And I related with what people were talking about, but I didn’t know why. The healing aspect of it. I related, I felt drawn to heal myself in that way, but I couldn’t understand why. And I eventually just wrote it off as I’m just kind of building it up. I’m hearing these people had this good experience and I just want to experience that as well. And I kind of just pushed it aside and let it go and stopped thinking about it. A couple years until my wife brought it up again. And she had done quite a bit of research at that point.

Tawnya: So then you decided, you met with Jessica and then you booked your tickets and then you showed up. Did you get there and you were like, “oh my God, what did I get myself into?”

Jason: Honestly I was really excited when we got there. We got there early and just those little towns were just absolutely adorable and it was a wonderful place to be leading up to it. Fun, comfortable. It wasn’t scary once we were there so much for me. It was more before it was leading up to it. It was that anticipation. Oh, this is coming up. This is going to happen. But once we were in Mexico, I just gave into it, gave into the process and just enjoyed being there.

Linda: So the day that we arrived, Jay came to pick us up personally, which was amazing. So we got to know him on the car ride to San Pancho. And then Andrew was the one who brought our bags to our room and gave us a little tour of the place.

I think that I had a lot of fear. And I remember being in the room and just having like this little wave of fear and panicking anxiety come over me. But as the other guests arrived and as we slowly interacted with yourself and with Jessica and Jay and Josephina, I just started to feel very comfortable. It’s really amazing to me how you guys create a setting that becomes so warm and welcoming so quickly. Because it was a group of 11 of us. So that means nine people that I didn’t know, plus the facilitators, yourself included that I also didn’t know. But within a few hours speaking to everybody and getting to know what they were here for put me at ease, because I felt like we were all on a journey. All individually for ourselves, so it’s all going to look very unique, but that we were coming together looking for something greater, something warmer or something full of compassion. And I think that’s what everybody was looking for, and that really put me at ease.

Tawnya: Wow. So do you guys want to dive into your expectations of what the macro-dose experience was going to be like and then what it turned out to be?

Jason: I don’t know that I had a lot of expectations on what it was going to be. I was just trying to stay open and positive about the experience. Because I was struggling with all my previous thoughts and beliefs about psychedelics and the nervousness there.

So I didn’t really spend a lot of time thinking about how it was going to be different afterwards or exactly what I was looking for. I just had faith that it was going to help. That it was going to go the way that it was meant to go. And it went better than I ever could have imagined.

Tawnya: What about you, Linda? Did you have expectations?

Linda: I had a lot of fear. That’s what I noticed. And when I came out of it on the other side, now I noticed that I have a lot of trust.

Tawnya: Wow.

Linda: I have a lot of trust and I’m open to growing and learning, but also to understanding that everything has a time and a place and that it will be revealed to me when it is just right.

My fear going into the psilocybin macro-dose was that I would be exploring a deep, dark corner of my mind, of my trauma, of my lived experience or my story that I wasn’t quite ready to tackle, or that maybe I didn’t have the capacity to tackle; that’s why my mind kind of pushed it deep down inside. But that is not at all my experience on the macro-dose.

I was very pleasantly surprised.

What I remember specifically about my macro-dose was me giving myself permission to feel all of the feelings, all of the grief, the sorrow, the despair, the sadness that I had as my husband and I are navigating through this PTSD journey. I think that for the longest time, I attempted to shield my husband from all of my feelings as a way of not making his PTSD worse. So for me, that meant a lot of crying by myself in the shower or in my car and just pretending that everything is always okay. That everything is perfect.

So I remember going through that gambit of emotions during my psilocybin macro-dose. But then at a certain point in time, something shifted during that macro-dose, where I saw the world as this beautiful, wonderful, and joyous place where I kept telling myself, and I don’t know why, I just kept telling myself that I was safe and that I was loved and that I’m free to be who I am.

And it was this exploration that has continually lasted since the macro-dose.

Tawnya: What about you, Jason?

Jason: It was certainly an interesting experience.

I feel like I’ve come out of the experience with a lot of positivity towards other people, the world in the future that I had lost. I have trust in people being good again. I can see the good. I don’t just see the bad everywhere anymore. I’m not constantly looking for the bad, I’m not constantly looking for the accident that’s waiting to happen when I’m driving down the street or every little action that people are doing and just having that police eye. It had become 24/7, 365. Everybody was doing something wrong and I needed to figure out what it was. That went away.

I trusted people. My experience was interesting. Having looked back, It was almost like the first panic attack I ever had, which is around the time that I started to notice the symptoms of PTSD. The beginning of my dose was reliving that, except it went down in a completely different way. My wife was there and she was able to recognize that I was struggling. And then you and Josephina, people I had only met 12 hours earlier. Being able to ask for your help and then having you come over and sit with me. Really just sit with me while I was in this uncomfortable place really gave me faith in people, and the kindness of people.

Tawnya: I love your awareness about calling it the “police eye”. What a really interesting idea. And you’re more aware of that eye now. And I’m curious if you have a name for the other eye that’s more positive. That’s looking in, the humanity and the compassion in others.

Jason: I don’t have a word for it, but I feel like it’s just being a human again.

Tawnya: Beautiful.

Jason: Again, police officer. A lot of things about the job are really inhumane.

Tawnya: Right.

Jason: Because it’s about taking away people’s freedom, and looking for that, and I think being human is about helping people. It’s about picking people up. It’s about trusting people. And it’s hard to do that when you have the “police eye.”

Tawnya: That’s beautiful. Thank you. And so you had some challenges in your experience. And where else did it take you?

Jason: Eventually, in that challenging place I became very comfortable. And then once I felt very comfortable, I was just suddenly able to get up and to move around. And that’s when I started to be filled with joy and curiosity, and I just went and started interacting with the other people and the facilitators of Eleusinia. Again, I hadn’t known anybody there other than my wife for more than 12 hours. And then just being able to go out and be joyful and communicate openly and honestly with them and share things that I had never really shared with anyone other than really close friends or healthcare providers. To be able to engage with new people. I was just full of joy and smiling and talking to people, and it’s something I hadn’t felt in a really long time.

Everybody was sharing their challenges and difficulties. All of a sudden everybody wanted to engage. They wanted to hear each other. They wanted to share their stories. Again, people we’d only met 12 hours before. We were all happy and laughing. We started hugging each other. Really opened up everybody to kindness and love and the positivity in the world.

Tawnya: Did you gain from the cultivation too? Did you ever get to a space where you started to cultivate?

Linda: I found it all very helpful, because I think that what is unique about Eleusinia is that as much as it is psychedelic assisted therapy, I think the program really allows us to tap into our own power and our own capacity to continue to treat ourselves with psilocybin.

I absolutely loved Jessica’s concept of “Yeeting,” and just physically moving from one space to another, to the next chapter if the first one is uncomfortable. I never know what the next chapter is going to hold, but I know that with the skills that I was taught, I’m capable of changing to the next chapter if I want or if I feel that I need to.

I also found Andrew’s breathwork to be really powerful. I found that to be most powerful during the mini-dose, because I was able to utilize the breathwork to have a very similar experience to my macro-dose whenever I wanted to during the mini-dose. But I found that the mini-dose, I had a lot of control over, and that I could also accelerate it with some of the skills, the tools and the resources that you guys have taught us.

Tawnya: And what about the mini-dose experience? Jason, was that different for you?

Jason: I didn’t get as much out of the mini-dose experience. Looking back on it, there was a bit of a mood elevation, but that’s all I really felt on the mini-dose.

Tawnya: What about you, Linda?

Linda: My mini-dose was actually very empowering for me because going into the macro-dose, I feel like I had a lot of fears and anxieties. Going into the mini-dose I didn’t have fear and anxiety. I felt like it was very empowering and that I very much had a lot of control over my mental faculties and my body. And I still was able to tap into the power and the significance of the macro-dose utilizing the skills and the resources that you guys taught.

So I felt like it was very empowering and it made me feel like even when I am at home, even when I do feel like I am struggling, I am capable of and I have the power to continue to use this medicine to heal myself, whether I have access to practitioners such as yourself and Jessica and the other facilitators at Eleusinia. It’s really empowering to know that I can do it myself and that I have all the skills and resources within me. And I think that’s incredible for healing.

Tawnya: Jason, I know that you haven’t had an additional dose since you’ve been home. And I also know that the research shows that people who have a mystical experience fare better and don’t necessarily have to have additional doses. And the definition of that “mystical experience” is this feeling of incredible intense interconnectedness. I’m wondering if that is what you can claim helped shift that “policing eye” to the one of more humanity and compassion.

Jason: Yes, I really do think it has. I actually recently filled out a form from a healthcare provider. It was a post-traumatic growth questionnaire. And after going through all those questions, I realized that immediately after taking the large dose, all of those answers were at a maximum score. And that positivity and that belief in positivity has really helped break down a lot of the core beliefs and negative beliefs about the world that I had developed in policing. I was able to challenge all of those as one big group, whereas before going through therapy, it was like picking out negative core beliefs one by one and working on them.

But it gave me this opportunity to wipe the slate clean, and they were just gone. And it wasn’t just the core beliefs. It was my actions. The way that I handle the symptoms of PTSD are very different. I don’t have those outbursts anymore. I’m not afraid of what’s going to happen when I’m feeling my symptoms and those emotions. Sometimes I get caught up in not seeing the end of it, but it’s not catastrophizing to the same level. I’m not blaming people in those moments for it. So it’s a lot easier for me to get out of it. It’s a lot shorter and the intensity’s a lot lower.

So when I would start to feel the symptoms of PTSD, and for me it’s almost like this static in my mind then followed by waves of very strong emotions… in those moments, I was suddenly able to use the tools that I had learned. It was like my old default path had been reset, and I was able to choose a new path. And I noticed that with a lot of my behaviors, it was almost like everything was reset and I had this opportunity to reinvent myself with new behaviors, new reactions, or I could go back to the old ones as well. But I made a lot of changes, and my life is completely different afterwards

Tawnya: Amazing. Amazing. What about you, Linda?

Linda: So I had started micro-dosing prior to Eleusinia. That was where the research I’ve been doing pointed me to, and that’s where I was comfortable experimenting on myself. Prior to Eleusinia, I felt a lift in mood and almost hyper-focused when I was micro-dosing. I was doing anywhere from 200 to 300 milligrams and I wasn’t doing it often, but after Eleusinia I think I waited a fair amount of time, and then I just got curious and decided to do a micro-dose, but I was actually very mindful and I wanted to utilize my micro-dose to sit with myself and my thoughts more, and just be calm and quiet and see whatever bubbles to the surface so that I can tackle it with my mind or just let it sit with me so that I have a greater understanding of it.

The first time I did micro-dosing following Eleusinia, it was a 300 milligrams micro-dose. And for some reason, I thought to up my micro-dose another 200 milligrams and really focus on being in nature and meditating and quieting and stilling my mind. And I found that I saw the most beautiful splashes of color and geometric shapes and patterns when I closed my eyes and meditated. And it had a very calming effect on my body and my mind, whereas in the past, I’d often struggled with meditating. I found it just to be so fluid and so easy on the micro-dose. And so it’s something that I’m going to continue to work with and explore. And my intention is really just be with myself and to be able to sit with myself in comfort and make friends with my mind.

Tawnya: That’s beautiful. Are you grateful that you attended the retreat together? Was there a lot that opened up and was revealed going as a couple?

Jason: I’m really glad that we went together. Both having that experience and coming out of it with that positivity towards humanity and other people, I feel like really strengthened our relationship, strengthened our bond, strengthened our intimacy. Intimacy in that way of really knowing each other and being able to share every little detail with the one that you love. And I’ve been able to do that since we got back and really enjoy our time together and sharing our thoughts and our emotions and our fears. It’s been a real big difference in that area. And it’s brought us so much closer together.

Tawnya: And Linda, you had mentioned that there was a time that you only cried in the shower and you only cried in your car. Have you been able to really combine the fears and joys more with Jason?

Linda: Yeah. I’m much more open to feeling my emotions around him now. I really don’t know why I stopped myself for so long. I felt like I was protecting him from something, but I was really just suppressing a part of myself. I think that being much more open and much more honest has created a really strong bond between us.

I’m so eternally grateful for Eleusinia. The experience that I personally had there changed my mindset. It’s changed my life. It’s really touched me in a way that makes me want to be a better person in this world for others.

Just having come in contact with yourself and with Jessica, Jay, Andrew, and Josephina, you guys are all such beautiful and loving people that you were able to bring out just the best in me. And it just felt like something that I wanted to take hold of and continue on as much as I can to bring out the best in myself. But also I recognize that when I am the best version of myself, I’m able to help other people see the best version of themselves. I just feel so much more connected with people that I haven’t met yet. I know that as human beings, we have much more in common than we do differences. And I think that’s something that we should all really focus on because it’s very much true, especially with everybody that I met at Eleusinia.

Tawnya: I’m curious, really for the both of you, because your background is in social work and policing, if there was anybody out there listening that may be feeling the same way that you felt in the challenges of the career, would you have any recommendations or advice or support that you could give?

Jason: Seek out help. Take what comes and go through the healing process. The job takes its toll on everybody. I don’t think there’s anybody in first responder work that couldn’t benefit from aspects of the healing someone with PTSD goes through. There’s so much benefit to everybody in policing. I see how beneficial so many of these skills would’ve been to learn even in the very first days of training. And if I had learned them early on, I might have been able to stay on top of these things, or even recognize what was happening earlier on before it got to the point where I wasn’t able to continue going to work and heal myself at the same time.

So definitely get out there. Get the help that you need. And if psychedelics seem like something that’s going to help you. If you’re on the fence on whether or not to try just do some research. I mean, in Canada, there’s all kinds of research going on as well that you can get yourself a part of, or you can also go to Eleusinia.

Tawnya: Thank you. What about you, Linda? Do you have any suggestions for people out there?

Linda: My advice to people would be to be honest and accepting of your feelings of what is going on, of how it’s manifesting in your body or your mind, and to trust. Trust that there are people out there who feel the same way and who would, of course help in a heartbeat.

Tawnya: Oh, I appreciate you guys so much. Thank you so much for coming on the show and telling your story and telling us a little bit about how you guys are doing now and how you’re feeling now. And Jason, you’re starting the process of going back to work, and that’s just amazing to have moved through all that stuff and to be coming out on the other side.

Jason: Yeah, it really is. Because when I went to Eleusinia I was not in that spot yet. I didn’t think going back to work was possible. And afterwards, I remember it started popping up in dreams, this theme of “it’s time.” And I started to be open to exploring the challenges of actually going back to work, the final pieces of it. And having a drive to actually work on those aspects of my recovery.

Tawnya: Oh, that’s so amazing.

Jason: It was an absolutely beautiful experience at Eleusinia. And it wasn’t just the dosing with psilocybin. It was the integration sessions with you afterwards, and really every activity I view now as being part of that integration. Even just getting up in the morning and having chats with everybody else that was there every day and seeing where people were at, and seeing how people’s perspective changed and allowed me to go back and ask myself new questions every day and really brought a lot of meaning. I was really able to pull all the meaning out of that experience.

Tawnya: And that’s what integration means. And I think people forget because we have integration sessions, but what you just said is true, that making meaning and sharing with others, that’s integration. Listening and then sharing is like, oh my God, that’s totally it.

I’m never going to forget what you said about the “policing eye,” and I loved your awareness about catastrophizing and your awareness of all those emotions. I mean, whether you know it or not, you have such expansive knowledge about where your mindset is. Like you’ve mapped it out. It’s incredible. And it really motivated me to be aware of the eye that I put on. The eye that I’m wearing in any given moment or perspective or situation. It was really beautiful. So I really appreciate it. And it’s amazing to have couples on and to hear the story woven together of what you guys move through and experience. And I hope to continue to stay in contact with you.

Linda: Thank you so much, Tawnya. It was a beautiful experience and it still continues to be a beautiful experience.

Tawnya: Thank you guys so much.

Linda: Thanks, Tawnya.

Jason: Thank you!

Tawnya: Thank you all so much for listening. You can find all the information that you need to learn everything about this retreat at We are a retreat that offers ongoing integration support, breathwork classes, and cultivation support after you have attended this retreat. It’s an amazing experience that’s one of its kind. If you’re looking for a science based retreat, something out of the box, something to change your life, something to add to your practice, this is where you really need to start:

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